Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (2024)

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Julio Garay Terrazas

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  • 18 January 2024
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I found it in my files:

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snake65
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (10)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (11)Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: Soviet small BB projectsEvolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (12)
As the Soviet Navy considered Iowas to have far stronger armour than in reality the Project 24 BB with only 406mm guns was not considered to be decisively superior. As the displacement of Project 24 was stretching the limitations of the Soviet shipbuilding industry, during 1951-1952 CNII-45 prepared around 20 versions of smaller BBs, which while still retaining 16" guns, had the displacement, armour and speed of Pr. 82 cruiser. These are considered to be the last Soviet "classic gunship" BB design. Instead they switched to cruise missile armed capital ship projects.

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (13)


Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (14)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (15)

TinWing
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (16)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (17)Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Soviet small BB projectsEvolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (18)
snake65 wrote:
As the Soviet Navy considered Iowas to have far stronger armour than in reality the Project 24 BB with only 406mm guns was not considered to be decisively superior. As the displacement of Project 24 was stretching the limitations of the Soviet shipbuilding industry, during 1951-1952 CNII-45 prepared around 20 versions of smaller BBs, which while still retaining 16" guns, had the displacement, armour and speed of Pr. 82 cruiser. These are considered to be the last Soviet "classic gunship" BB design. Instead they switched to cruise missile armed capital ship projects.

Do you have any dimensions or specifications for the two depicted designs?

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (19)

johnestauffer
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (20)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (21)Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject:Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (22)
Based on the info in McLaughlin's Russian & Soviet Battleships
The first drawing appears to be small battleship Design IIu-2p
Displacement: 31,870 tons std, 42,300 tons full load
Dimensions: 230m x 30m x 8.3m
Armament:
2 - 457mm; 4 - 220mm; 12 twin 57mm; 12 - quad 25mm
Armor
Belt: 180mm - increased to 220-250mm over magazines
Barbettes: 150-420mm
Fwd bulkhead: 300-500mm
Aft bulkhead: 130-180mm
Decks: 50mm+120mm+15mm
Machinery: 2 x 70,000 shp for 30.4 knots
The 2nd drawing appears to be Design II-III3
Displacement: 39,250 tons std; 44,9000 tons full load
Dimensions: 260m x 31m x 9m
Armament:
5 - 406mm (1 twin, 1 triple); 4 - 180mm; 12 - twin 57mm; 12 quad 25mm
Armor:
Belt: 180mm increased to 220 - 250 over magazines
Barbettes: 150 - 420mm
Fwd bulkhead: 300 - 500mm
Aft bulkhead: 130 - 180mm
Decks: 50mm+120mm+15mm
Machinery: 3 x 70,000 shp for 32.7 knots

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (23)

snake65
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (24)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (25)Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject:Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (26)
Quite right, just some small corrections:
The belt is 180mm over the magazines and less everywhere else;
Full displacement for Design IIu-2p is 33870. 42300 is for Pr.82

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (27)

M. A. Rozon
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (28)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (29)Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: Thanks again!Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (30)
Thanks again, Snake65!

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (31)

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (32)

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (33)

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (34)

When I first read about them and saw the drawing for the 5 x 16-inch gun version, I have always wondered what the 18-inch gun version looked like.

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (35)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (36)

BlackBat242
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (37)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (38)Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:13 am Post subject:Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (39)
The text for the first lists it as having 406mm (16") guns as well... but this does not fit with the size of the turret in the drawing when compared to the 220mm (8.7") triple turret aft.

Both drawings show 14 - twin 57mm mounts, not the 12 listed in the specifications.

The first drawing shows only 10 - quad 25mm mounts, not the 12 listed in the specifications.

I do think the 5 x 406mm + 3 x 7.1" version is much better balanced, but would have preferred a heavy AA/DP suite.

Replace the first pair of twin 57mm mounts on each side and the aft pair of twin 57mm mounts with the twin 130mm (5.1") 46cal mount as intended for the Stalingrad class BCs.

Replace the triple 7.1" turret with 2 twin 130mm (5.1") 46cal mounts as well.

Move the aft twin 57mm mount on each side to a superfiring position on the side (replacing the 3rd & 4th quad 25mm mounts on each side). Install a twin 130mm (5.1") 46cal mount where these twin 57mm mounts used to be.

This gives an armament of 5 - 406 [16"] (1 x 3 & 1 x 2); 14 - 130mm [5.1"] (7 x 2) DP; 16 - 57mm (8 x 2) AA; & 32 - 25mm (8 x 4) AA.

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (40)

Micio_Mio
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (41)


Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (42)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (43)Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:41 am Post subject:Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (44)
BlackBat242 wrote:
The text for the first lists it as having 406mm (16") guns as well...

I've that book (a beautiful book), the text is wrong.
_________________
"I'm glad to see how much free time has somebody..." (K'ung fu-tzu)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (45)

Mopat
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (46)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (47)Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject:Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (48)
snake65
Great pictures!

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (49)


I liked small BB ships!(But these are not really small or light ones-compared to pre-WW2 ships.Compared to an Iowa, Montana, H-..., Yamato are more visible. Not mentioned an H-44 or a similar soviet topheavy ship!)
If you have similar great pictures about Pr.22 or Pr.66 heavy cruiser, please post!(H-44 also velcome!

Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (50)

)
So, as seen the russian text above, ships are turbo-electric driven?
Or not? But the 4 diesel-generators outside the main armour stucture are interesting. So, translation are welcome!
Mopat

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (51)

snake65
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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (52)

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Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (53)Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject:Evolution of the Design Requirements of the Battleship Project 24 (54)
Mopat

I doubt it very much that the ships are turbo-electric. As for the diesel generators, they are auxiliary anyway, I guess they just didn't have enough space inside the citadel.

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